Hannah Clark: This is an oral history interview for the South Carolina Honors College thesis project, More than the Mileage: Finding Community and a Sense of Place through Recreational Distance Running, documenting the perspectives and experiences of recreational distance runners. This is Hannah Clark, the date is February 1st, 2024, and today I’m interviewing Michelle Daniels virtually via Zoom. I’m in Columbia, South Carolina and Michelle is in Birmingham, Alabama. Would you start by giving me your full name and spelling it for me?

Michelle Daniels: Yeah, it’s Michelle Daniels and it’s M-I-C-H-E-L-L-E. And then Daniels is D-A-N-I-E-L-S.

HC: Okay, perfect. Thank you. We’re going to start with some background. Where were you born, and if different, where do you currently reside?

MD: Oh, I was born in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and I’m currently in Birmingham, Alabama.

HC: Awesome. How old are you?

MD: I am 31.

HC: Okay, perfect. If you don’t mind, tell me a little bit about your family.

MD: Just, like broadly?

HC: Yeah.

MD: Okay. (Laughs). So I have one brother, he’s older than me, four years older. We grew up in a small town in rural Arizona, and then both my brother and I went to Arizona State for undergrad. Do you want to know more about- or just generally the family structure?

HC: Up to you. Up to you.

MD: (Laughs). Okay. My whole family still lives in Arizona, so we’re kind of like- everyone’s in the Phoenix area now, and so we’re kind of the odd ones out, out here in Birmingham.

HC: Sounds good.

MD: Pretty normal family!

HC: (Laughs). What is your current role or occupation?

MD: I am an assistant professor of marketing.

HC: Okay, nice. How long have you been a runner?

MD: I feel like my running journey has been very off and on, so I did cross country in middle school, and then I didn’t run in high school, and then I started running again in college. But I would actually say my longest running journey started probably in 20- let’s see, I’m thinking about this because it’s actually when Helen [my thesis director and her friend] joined our grad program, she convinced me to run a half marathon with her- like 2016? So I’ve been more consistent since then I would say.

HC: Okay, sounds good. If you remember, what or who inspired your start into running?

MD: Probably my mom. She was the cross country coach, so she pulled me in pretty quickly, and she also grew up doing competitive track and running sports generally.

HC: Nice. If you have one, tell me about the group that you run with currently.

MD: Yeah, so I run with a group called the Birmingham Thursday Night Runners. When I joined- so I joined December-ish of 20- I guess it would’ve been 2022, so I’ve been running with them for a little bit over a year now, but they meet every Thursday night at a brewery, and then we run five miles, and then we go back to the brewery and have drinks together. And it’s a pretty cool group, because I think it’s one of the few ones where it truly is all paces. So I’m not a fast runner, I’m a very slow runner, but then there are people who are placing, like Boston qualifying, so it’s a whole kind of range of people.

HC: No, that’s cool. So how do you feel connected to the group or others when you run?

MD: Yeah, that’s a great question. Actually, so I’ve lived in Birmingham for two and a half years now, and I would say that the running group is probably kind of the first social group I really felt connected to. So my husband met one of the people who was in the running group, and my husband doesn’t run, but they kept on trying to get me to come, but I was worried because I hadn’t run in a while and I was like, ‘I’m not in shape, I can’t do five miles.’ And they were like, ‘well, we’ll do three with you.’ And so I kind of got to build up and everyone was just so friendly and supportive and so it’s been very fun just getting to know everyone through running.

HC: Yeah, for sure. Can you describe to me how you feel when you run?

MD: While I’m running?

HC: Yeah.

MD: For the most part, I usually enjoy it. It’s funny, I didn’t always- so I normally listen to audiobooks if I’m running alone, because I want to be focusing on something else, but I feel like the more consistent I’ve gotten, the more it is just a nice calm while I’m running.

HC: For sure. How does this emotion change, or how you feel when you run change depending on the place you’re in, if that’s applicable?

MD: (Pauses at 4:37). I guess, so I went back to Phoenix for the holidays this year, and I ran there, and that felt a lot more nostalgic. So I mean, it’s a really nice way to just see things. So I also like running when I’m on vacation, because it’s kind of a good way to introduce yourself to the area, so that’s slightly different than when I’m running just in Birmingham.

HC: Yeah, for sure. How do you feel connected to your surroundings when running? It kind of connects to the last question, but…

MD: I feel like it’s a really good way to get to know your area, and feel more connected to the area generally, because yeah, you have to know, ‘oh, in half a mile up here, there’s going to be a weird hole in the ground that I have to pay attention to or else I’ll fall,’ stuff like that. That’s silly, but it does make you pay, I think, more attention. Plus you’re just passing by at a slower rate than you normally do if you’re driving, I feel like you miss so much.

HC: Yeah, definitely. Can you walk me through your feelings when you run alone compared to running within your group?

MD: Yeah. I would say for me, running alone, it’s much more like I need to get some exercise. I know I’m going to feel better after I do this versus running with a group, I’m more excited, I would say, because it’s more of a gathering.

HC: Yeah, definitely.

MD: Yeah. It’s interesting though because I actually, Helen could tell you this, I used to hate running with groups. She would want to run together and I’d be like, ‘no, I don’t run with groups at all.’ I don’t enjoy it. So that’s been a pretty big shift in my own running journey is now it’s like I actually genuinely really like running with groups.

HC: For sure. So with your Thursday night group, do you run the same route or do you switch it up? Can you tell me a little bit about where you go?

MD: So we start from a different brewery around the city, but all of the breweries are along kind of this one trail that connects all of them. So, we more often than not run some portion of that same trail. There are a couple of different routes that we’ll take though through different areas of town. So I would say 80% of the time we run this one trail, and then the other amount of time we mix it up and are running through different parks and stuff.

HC: Nice. Have you trained for any running events or races and can you walk me through the experience of training if you’ve done that?

MD: Yeah, so I have run four half marathons, so I’ve trained for all of those. The one I ran most recently was in October. That was probably the one I’ve trained the second-least for (laughs) just because I teach in the fall, and I teach an hour away from where I live. I don’t think I really- and I am not used to this, being from Arizona, it gets light so early with daylight savings time, or dark so early. So I feel like I wasn’t running quite as much, so I was a little less prepared for that race. But I would say normally, my first two, I was really, really structured and really intense about how I had to train, but since I’ve been running more regularly, I’ve let it go a little bit. I don’t run for a time or anything, typically, I just am trying to finish it.

HC: Yeah, make it to the end-

MD: Did I answer your question? I feel like I lost the question.

HC: No, no. Yeah, that’s perfect. Have you trained with someone before or has it just been solo training?

MD: I would say mostly solo, with the exception of, so two of those- two, three? Maybe three of ’em, I actually ran with Helen and one other friend, and so we would do longer runs together.

HC: Can you tell me more about that? How did you feel running and training kind of with the support of others compared to solo?

MD: Well, so I’ll be completely honest, the first time- the first half marathon we trained for, I hated it, because both her and my other friend were just much stronger runners than I was, and so they were very happy and really enjoying it and I hated it. During our first half marathon, they were taking selfies and smiling and I was so angry, (laughs) but I think that was also just like I wasn’t in as good of shape as I should have been to run a half marathon, but since then, I feel like it’s been a lot more camaraderie, and support system, and cheering you on, and it’s nice to have someone to talk to while you’re doing it. In fact, it was interesting in this most recent race, it was kind of weird. I was running pretty much alone the whole time, because the people I race, that I run with, a lot of times at the running group are a lot faster than me. So they were just ahead of me in the half and they were going for specific times. So that was interesting. It was the first time where around mile 11,12, I was like, ‘I could really use a person to put me up a little bit right now.’ (Laughs). Yeah, so now it’s a lot more supportive and enjoyable, I would say.

HC: Yeah, definitely. How, if at all, did the pandemic affect your running journey or your experience with running?

MD: Yeah, that’s a great question. So the last half marathon I’d run before the one I ran in October was actually February of 2020, and so I was actually taking a break when the pandemic hit, but I think once the pandemic hit, it was like, I just need to get out of the house. And so I wasn’t training for everything- anything. So I was doing shorter runs, yeah, three- I would say like a 5K was my typical run. I had a run around- we lived by a lake, and I ran around that lake and it was about 5K. And so that became much more of a habit of just like, ‘I just need to get out of the house, and run, and do this.’ And then, it’s weird, because the pandemic was so long, we moved during mid-2021 where it was the second wave of everything, and then again it was like, ‘okay, a bunch of stuff is closed in this new place that I live, so I’m just going to run around and see what everything is.’ So I feel like [during] the pandemic, it became a lot more important as just something for my mental health, to get out of the house and actually be outside.

HC: Yes, I understand completely. Well, going off of that, how has distance running impacted your mental health, if at all, or the other way around?

MD: Yeah, it’s definitely helped. So I’m a very high-anxiety person, and just when I’m exercising, it’s so much better, I can focus better, I’m definitely less stressed. It’s funny because even, like what, I said I started running more regularly in 2016, so it’s been eight years. I still though really have to hype myself up to run, even though I know I’m going to feel better after this, I know how much it helps, but it’s definitely had a huge positive impact on my mental health for sure.

HC: Great. Can you tell me about a time that you felt proud to participate in a running group or an organization, whether it’s your current one or just an informal group that you’ve run with before?

MD: Yeah, so yeah, this is the only formal group that I’ve ever run with, and I don’t know, I’ve been proud the whole time because I feel like new people will join the group- So oh, when I started, like six people would come regularly, and now it’s like 30, so it’s gotten way bigger over the course of the time that I’ve been in the group, and it’s just really nice to watch everyone be really welcoming. And then I see so many people who are like me where it’s like, ‘oh, I just moved here. I don’t really know anyone’ and just find a community. So, I feel like that’s probably been the most proud [moment].

HC: Yeah, yeah. I guess in that sense, what advice would you give to a runner just starting out?

MD: It gets better (laughs), gets easier, run slower. I think that’s honestly the biggest piece of advice. I feel like when you’re starting out, you get so disappointed that you can’t run, when it’s just like any other skill, you’re going to be really bad at it before you’re good at it. So running slow and taking it easy is probably my number one piece of advice, is build up.

HC: How do you perceive your running journey progressing as you move into the future?

MD: That’s an interesting question. I kind of like where I’m at- so I am trying to run more miles this year. So in my group, there are some people who, this past year, ran 1200 miles in the year. Yeah, and so, and that’s like a whole group you can join and say you’re going to do it at the beginning of the year. I do not think I can do 1200 miles in a year, but I am going for like 650, so I’m trying to just increase the amount I’m running weekly, but I think- so that’s more my goal, is increasing mileage versus any type of speed goal. I’ll probably do another half this year, I don’t know exactly when, but I would say in the past I’ve run to train for something, like I’ve always been like, ‘well, I’m doing this because I’m training for whatever.’ But now I’m much more of like, ‘well, I’m doing this because I like it,’ and if a cool race comes along, then I’m going to sign up for that race, but I’m not running, kind of, to train for that right now.

HC: Right. If it comes along, added bonus.

MD: Yeah, it’s a lot more casual now, where I’m just like, I’m just doing this because I know how much it helps me and I enjoy it, I really like my running group, so. If anything, it’s actually become less goal-oriented.

HC: For sure. How, if at all, do you track your running or do you have any sort of method that you use to kind of keep yourself accountable?

MD: Yeah, I use Strava [running tracking app], but I don’t post my routes publicly. So, which I know- I don’t like people knowing where I’m running or how often I’m running, so it’s just for myself.

HC: For sure.

MD: That’s how I track.

HC: That makes sense. Overall, how would you say running has impacted your life?

MD: I mean, I guess at this point it’s the sport I’ve been doing the longest, so it’s definitely had a positive impact. It’s how I connected with friends when I was in grad school, and then now it’s how I met a bunch of new people. So I think mostly just from a relationship standpoint, it’s helped me meet people and helped me kind of make new friends. This was kind of my first big move I’ve ever really had outside of moving for college, and college, you’re surrounded by a bunch of people who are the same age as you and you’re all living in dorms, and so it’s really easy to meet people. So I think, this move to Birmingham, it was the first time where running was really how I, kind of, built up a community around myself. And it was also nice ’cause it was something I had just for myself, because I’m married. and it’s wonderful because we do a ton of stuff as couples, but then this was one thing where I’m like, ‘okay, I’m just going to go and I’m going to do this and it’s for me and it’s going to be fun.’

HC: Yeah, definitely. And we’ve kind of touched on this a little bit, but just to close, you mentioned the community through the running group. Can you walk me through a little more of that sense of belonging, starting from, you know, just joining to where you are now? What’s kept you going I guess?

MD: I think it’s mostly the people. Right, like I like the people so much. Like I said, one thing that I’m really proud of with the group is how welcoming they are, because I feel like a lot of- it can be intense, especially if you’re like me where you’re not a hyper-competitive runner, I’m not running a six-minute mile or anything like that, it can be kind of scary to try to go join a running group. But I think, everyone was just super welcoming. I remember the first time I came, I think there were five of us there, and everyone took the time to ask me about myself and who I am, and be like, ‘make sure you come back next week,’ and that’s never really changed, so I found a really nice group. So, yeah, I just think it’s been a nice sense of camaraderie, and I feel like now I get to be on the other end of it, so when someone moves, I get to be like, ‘Oh, what’s your name? What do you do? Come back next week, this is a fun group, everyone’s really nice.’ So.

HC: Yeah, for sure. That’s really all I have. Thank you so much for walking me through that. I know sometimes questions can, you know. I don’t know, but I appreciate you telling.