Fannie Ford, Charlie Belton, & Easter Samuels

Interviewee: Fannie Ford, Charlie Belton, & Easter Samuels
Interviewee: Shelley Dempsey
Date: October 26, 2017

Accession#  EDLP 008
Length of Recording (min/sec): 67:52     

 

Sound Recording

 

Summary

Fannie Ford, Charlie Belton, and Easter Samuels were all born in Fairfield County, South Carolina. They attended Fairfield High School and Winnsboro High School (now Fairfield Central High School) during the integration of schools.

This oral history interview with Fannie Ford, Charlie Belton, and Easter Samuels on October 26, 2017 includes discussion of growing up in Fairfield County, attending Fairfield High School, Winnsboro High School, school segregation and integration, curriculum differences, family discussions about the integration of schools, life after graduation from high school, their feelings about the closing of Fairfield High School, the quality of teachers at Fairfield High School, home visits from teachers, race relations in the community, Richard Winn Academy, the Civil Rights movement, Charlie Belton invited  back to Winnsboro High School as a local poet, the Winnsboro Mill Village, lack of extra-curricular activities for black students at Winnsboro High School, explaining segregation to younger generations, race relations in Fairfield County today, economic depression in Fairfield County, an anecdote about class rings, and planning reunions and classmates’ birthdays.          

 

Transcript

Shelley Dempsey: Okay, so my name is Shelley and I’m with the University of South Carolina. And so we’re conducting this interview as part of my class and so we’ll just start out and go down the line. If you could say your name and then the year you were born.

Fannie Ford: I’m Fannie Ford, I was born in 1953.

Charlie Belton: My name is Charlie Belton, born 1953.

Easter Samuels: Easter Samuels, born 1953.

SD: Wonderful. I’d like to hear a little bit about your childhood, about growing up, memories you have of your family and growing up here in town if you were here as a child. And you don’t have to go in order every time, it can be whoever would like to speak first.

FF: Well actually I was born and raised in Ridgeway, it’s about, what, how many miles would you say?

CB: Nine or ten.

FF: About nine or ten miles from here. But we had to be bused, you know, here for the high school curriculum. Basically my childhood, it was I’d say normal. We had a big family, I grew up in a family of eleven, and all the older siblings had kind of gone away from home when I came up and was going to school, but they lived near, we lived near each other and we always have. Basic childhood: we had chores to do just like everybody else, I mean, a lot more chores back then than they do now. And we had less television so we had to concentrate a lot more on doing chores and homework stuff, so it worked out pretty good.

CB: I was born probably three, four miles from here, not in the city, per se. So we were bused also, which was a short distance. I always wanted to walk to school because we’d always pass the people walking, you know . . .

SD: You wanted to walk.

CB: Yeah, I just thought that was a lot better than riding the bus I guess. That was an advantage and/or disadvantage. But I grew up in a family of five, my mother and father, which pretty much since, you know, they always said, try to get an education, learn. Some of it I picked up, some of it I forgot by the seventh grade, but by the time I got to high school here it was, it was interesting. And I don’t think I did my best per se as I look back, you know, because a lot of time I say I wish I knew then what I know now, which is obviously no comparison. But it was a real experience because I took a lot of, some listening from here throughout my life, you know, I had a pretty cool career. I left and I joined the military so I been to every continent, almost, on the globe and I traveled extensively. But I never forgot where I–where it all started.

ES: My childhood was pretty much like Fannie’s because I was born and raised in Ridgeway. And we had to be bused from Ridgeway to Fairfield County to go to school. And I started school here at Fairfield County when I was thirteen, in the eighth grade. Uh-huh, the classes started eighth grade and went through twelfth. And our class didn’t get to graduate from this school, we had to graduate from Winnsboro High because the integration had started, demanding integration. And my childhood was pretty much normal. I was from a family of nine, nine sisters and brothers, and my mother would always tell us that, you all can play in the yard because there’s enough of you all to play with. And we had a lot of chores, manual chores, we had to draw water from a well and from, from a pump, and we had chickens and we had pigs and we had to take care of that, we had to gather the eggs, we had to slop the pigs, but we were happy. And we had gardens, vegetables gardens, we had apple trees so we had to pick vegetables, work the gardens, pick the apples. But I had a happy child, like we was happy doing that, and I always say those was the good old days for me. Yes.

SD: Wonderful. So you mentioned that you started off here and then that’s when there was forced integration of the schools during the time.

ES: Yes.

SD: What year in school were you when that happened?

ES: That was in 1971.

SD: And so you were a . . .

ES: A senior in high school.

SD: So you were a senior, okay.

ES: Yeah, we were seniors. Yeah, and so we spent all of our eighth grade through the eleventh grade here, and our senior year that’s when we went over to Winnsboro High School.

SD: Okay, and was it a split day that you had during that senior year or were you completely, were you here part of the time and there . . .

ES: No, no they closed the doors on this school in 1970.

CB: Class of ’70 was the last graduating class here.

SD: Wow, how did that feel to . . .

ES: It was a big adjustment for me. And I was saddened because you always think about your senior prom, your senior trip, and we didn’t get to enjoy any of that. We didn’t have a prom or a senior trip. A lot of athletics was cut off, no football, no basketball, no cheerleaders. And our queens–class queens–and that was a big thing for us, we looked forward to all of those activities, but we didn’t get to enjoy those in our senior year. So our senior year was pretty much a fast year, but it was a lot of  disruptions.

SD: So it was eleventh grade here and then boom, twelfth grade, you’re at another school.

ES: Yeah.

SD: And there were buses to the other school?

ES: Yeah, we were bused in.

SD: Do you remember how that felt, that first day, what that looked like in terms of your feelings? How did you feel that day?

ES: Well a lot of uncertainty for me. And, and I was sad, very sad because it was a big adjustment for everybody. Yes.

CB: And me, from here to Winnsboro High School was, it was major adjustments from what we were actually used to here.

SD: What were those adjustments?

CB: And I just, the one year that we had to do it in over there, I actually–this was actually my last year here, I went to Winnsboro High, but I didn’t graduate with my class. But it just didn’t, I just felt like I never fit in, I just, I was comfortable here, you know the people, you know the surroundings, the teachers, and when we got over there it just . . . and you only got one actual class you had to figure it out because you’re going home after then. So it just, I just never adjusted actually to me, to Winnsboro High School, cause we went from a mascot, Fairfield Tigers, to the Winnsboro Wild Cats and we just got dissolved somewhere between the transition.

SD: And they were already the Winnsboro Wild Cats?

FF: Yes.

SD: So yours was dissolved and you were expected to . . .

CB: Oh yeah.

SD: . . . to be part of what they already were, is that correct?

FF: Yes.

ES: Um-hum.

SD: How did that feel to you?

FF: It was an adjustment. Some things positive, some things a little negative. I mean, the positive side of it, like I was just speaking with Easter this morning, I say, I remember when we went to Winnsboro High we had an elective class where you could have typing, home economics. We had Home Ec here,  but we didn’t have a typing class.

ES: No typing.

FF: No typing class, so that was a different experience. The teachers were very nice, I remember a few of them and we had a different English teacher than what we’ve had here. And actually our English teacher from here, she went on to Winnsboro High as our guidance counselor.

SD: Okay, so some of the teachers that were here . . .

FF: Yes. Yeah, the teachers went . . .

SD: . . . they did go, too.

FF: Yes. Yeah, they did go, too, and it was kind of  like, you know, we had a black teacher here and a white teacher, it kind of worked out but it was still…the atmosphere was a little bit different.

SD: Do you remember any difference in the classroom between whether it was a white teacher or a black teacher at the front of the classroom, in terms of how all the students reacted?

FF: It was kind of–I would say it was about mixed, because we had black teachers in some classes…

ES: Yeah.

CB: Um-hum.

FF: . . . like we had, I remember Ms. Entzminger (sp.) was our English teacher. An adjustment to me in Ms. Entzminger’s (sp.) class was you had to read Reader’s Digest and kind of cycle out the Reader’s Digest and stuff, we weren’t used to that. But we had English books and we, you know, went through that class. But I enjoyed it, at the end of the year it got a little better and I got more accustomed to it. I’m trying to think in our typing class, that was my elective class with Ms. London, I had her for my typing teacher, she was very nice and I learned to do a little typing, you know, not that fast but it was a different experience. And some of the other teachers I vaguely–it’s been forty-plus years since I remember all of that. (laughter)

SD: I’m impressed you remember names. That’s wonderful.

ES: Yes.

FF: Well I can say the, their books and their equipment was better than what we had.

ES: Yes.

FF: Because their typewriters, they were real . . .

CB: The visual equipment they used to use.

FF: Yeah, everything they had was nicer.

ES: Um-hum.

SD: Was that a surprise to you? When you showed up for the first time and saw what they had versus what you had before?

ES: Well, I was surprised. Yes. Um-hum.

CB: Because you seen so many things that were actually different from here; not only the teachers but the school itself. I mean, we come from a little, kind of more dilapidated system to almost a new school.

FF: Yeah, a new school, the cafeteria was better.

CB: You only got that one school term actually to adjust, you know. It would’ve took almost one time to just adjust to the new environment, people didn’t have time for that. You gotta get it now and go on because–

FF: –That was our senior year.

CB: . . . the curriculum was actually a lot different than what I experienced here. You know, I won’t say that they didn’t take time, it was just more accelerated there than here. So unless you was a ‘B’ student here you were more likely to fall behind over there because it was faster transitioning there.

ES: Yeah, because I remember the French class–the French teacher made a statement, say, “If you’re not making ‘A’s’ in French, don’t come to this class.”

SD: The teacher there said?

ES: Uh-huh, yes because they were so far advanced than what we had. Yes.

SD: Wow. How did that feel to hear that?

ES: Well, we had some students made ‘A’s’ in French here so they were fine, but I never was an ‘A’ student in French. I knew not to go in that direction. Yeah, uh-huh.

CB: Knew what was coming. (laughter)

SD: You mentioned some negatives, that there were some positives and you hit on those. What are those negatives that you were thinking?

FF: I think just the adjustment of having to move our senior year, just like he said accelerate from here and we had one year to get it or not. And if we were looking forward to going to college or whatever–because I was actually the first person in my family to go to college, and that was an experience I had to focus on because our guidance counselor here, Ms. Ross. There we had Ms. Faucette, (sp.) which was the teacher from Winnsboro High, they were very good, very nice, I got accepted at, like three or four colleges and I just wanted to, wasn’t sure what to do because, you know, family-wise we weren’t that, had that many funds to go. But I did get a four-year scholarship, but it was to Benedict College. I had got accepted at USC and also at South Carolina State, but my guidance counselor said, “Well I’m gonna work on getting you a scholarship to Benedict.” And we worked on that, we got a four-year scholarship to Benedict and that was fine, I enjoyed it. But looking back–and I love Benedict–but looking back I wish I’d had an experience where I would’ve gone to, like a mixed school, like . . .

SD: Really?

FF: . . . Yes.

SD: Really? So the decision to go to Benedict, was it based specifically on the scholarship or based on the fact that you’d had that one year of the integrated experience that wasn’t that…warm and fuzzy we’ll call it–was that why you were looking for . . .

FF: It was kind of more so based on the scholarship, cause like I said my parents didn’t have the basic funds, I’d have had to work and so forth. But I went through with the four-year scholarship and I maintained it the whole four years, and that worked out good. So.

SD: Yes, it did. Wonderful, congratulations.

FF: Thank you.

SD: Wonderful. That’s great. What about the rest of you, what, you mentioned military.

CB: Yeah. Well, when I left high school a year later I joined the Navy, 1972. Actually, well most of my work experience was kind of either government and…what do you call it . . . I did eleven years active duty. I got out of the Navy and went to work for the Department of the Army up at Fort Eustis Aviation Research and Development as a welder. And I actually left there and went to Desert Storm for a couple–from ’90 to ’92, like I say a lot of travel, as a Merchant Marine, as a civilian, as a Navy Sailor, all over the globe. But when I left high school I was always kind of mad at myself because I wasn’t a smart guy, but I was average, I would consider myself average, and I failed to get my diploma. So I kind of left high school now I’m here, my first challenge is the military and to be accepted they pretty much wanted a diploma or you gotta score pretty high on GCT and ARI. And like I said to prove I wasn’t a dummy I did score high enough to get the entry, but I was lacking my diploma so over the years I did receive GED and I went on to get some higher learning, English Literature and Composition at Old Dominion University during the slack times when I was in the Navy.

SD: Do you think that the pressure of what that one year felt like influenced the reason that you didn’t finish your degree there? Do you think if you had stayed here in the same environment and had not had to move to a new school . . .

CB: I think I was capable of transitioning, I just didn’t . . .

SD: But if you hadn’t been forced to transition in the first place, do you feel like you would’ve graduated and–

CB: Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. It just threw a little mixture in the mixture at the time. Like I say I didn’t have no real reasons for not graduating, cause I got out, we was graduating in, what…May?

FF: Yes.

CB: I left here in April and I don’t think it was because of the academics it was because I had missed more than thirty days in the school year so you’d have to do a repeat or you just didn’t graduate. I left and went to Hartford, Connecticut . . . finding myself… (laughter) That’s why I couldn’t–it took

SD: …at least you found yourself…

(laughter)

CB: –yeah, between then and ’72 when I decided to come back and I (unintelligible 14:56) go in the military. So I kind of left Fairfield and I stayed gone over twenty years, and I finally come back after Desert Storm and I been back here.

SD: Thank you for your service.

CB: Yeah. It was a wild ride.

SD: I bet it was. And then . . .

ES: Okay, well after graduation I got married, I graduated in May 1971, I got married in September 1971–and got married; was enjoying marriage, and then I wanted to go to school and so I entered back in school. I graduated from Columbia Commercial College and got a degree in business. And then I got a job in banking. And, in banking, in order to move up I wanted to get some more education, and so I enrolled at the banking school at USC. I took some courses there and that helped me with my banking career. And I stayed in banking for forty years. And I think I did very well, and I’m retired from there now and I’m living off that, and I’m doing quite well.

SD: Congratulations on retiring.

ES: And during that time I had one daughter. One daughter; I had her in ’72, and then I went to school after I had her in ’72. And it was kind of tough then, but I wished I would’ve got the education before I got married, but it all worked out. Yeah, it worked out fine, I had a lot of support, some strong support.

SD: Wonderful.

ES: Yes.

SD: When you look back to–between your junior and senior year–what advice did your families give you during that time? Did you sense frustration or fear or excitement or what was the sense you got from your parents and grandparents regarding this integration?

CB: My father, he grew up in the world of really hard-knocks. He believed in this pulpwood–if you know what it is–lumber work, and he told me when I was like sixteen, he say, “When you turn seventeen . . .”–he worked for somebody else at the time–he said, “When you turn seventeen, I wanna get a trucking system of my own, and we going into logging.” I couldn’t tell my father that was not my ambition. I was–I didn’t like chainsaws, I didn’t like the work, the noise…they talking about snakes in the woods–but I couldn’t just say, “Well that ain’t gonna be me.” Because he probably would’ve knocked me out. So I didn’t tell my father I had joined the military until the last day. I had to be at Ft. Jackson at nine o’clock, and I told him that morning at six o’clock, “Look Papa, I joined the Navy.” And he had a tantrum. He say, “I told you when you get eighteen I wanted you to take on this business. I want you to be a truck driver.”

“I don’t wanna be a truck driver. I don’t wanna be a logger.”

 

So, the only way to escape that at that time without getting killed, I say, “Well I’m going in the Navy, you can’t kill me.” He say, “Well, I should anyway.” But, and he, he–when I’d come home, he’d, “You ain’t right.” Said, “I can’t stand you ‘cause you turned me loose when I told you I wanted . . .” And by the time, in 1975 I re-enlisted for six more years to kind of complete the career, and it took him a while, but he settled in. Like I say he wasn’t a highly educated man but he believed in hard work, and he wanted to progress through myself–you know, to join him, me and my other brothers and things–but he wanted me to handle a bigger business for him. And I think a lot of  times, sometime I failed him. You know, I didn’t even want to come from my station in San Diego at the time, I’m like, ‘I ain’t even going home, ‘cause I know what I gotta meet; I gotta listen that you didn’t do this for me’. But after some years, now like I say after I re-enlisted I’d come home, he’d say, “Old boy,” he told me, “You did the right thing. That’s hard work.” And he finally accepted it. Before he died he accepted the fact that, well you did the right thing, I ain’t mad no more. It was a kind of a weight off me.

SD: Yeah, yeah I bet so. What about with your families leading into the integration? They knew you were going to be getting on this bus and heading into unchartered territory in a way. Did they prepare you in any way?… Parents, grandparents…?

ES: Well, in my family we have a strong religious background—prayer–my momma believed in prayer. And she would tell me, “You say your prayers and you keep your mouth shut. Don’t get involved in no kinda demonstrations or no nothing.” And that’s what I took with me and that kept me. I truly believe that kept me and it brought me through.

SD: It kept you, what did it do for you during that year specifically–your senior year?

ES: Well, to me, it kept me from getting involved in any kind of trouble: any arguments or whatever was going on around us. Because it was a lot of . . .

SD: Was there a lot of . . .

ES: Well, yeah it was fights, fights and name calling, and stuff like that.

CB: It was obvious that we, we weren’t . . .

ES: –Welcome.

CB: . . . particularly welcome there.

ES: Wasn’t welcome.

CB: Yeah, and it seemed to be more . . . well I’d say it was more white students I think than there were black, but they were in a neutral ground, they were familiar with the grounds and . . .

ES: Yeah, they were home, that was their school.

CB: So coming there was all just strange all together. And like I say acceptance wasn’t just that warm in some cases, not everybody…

SD: What did the administration do in those situations, both the administration that had been part of the white school previously, and the teachers that you said were now with you at the new school?

CB: Well, I think it was stronger because I found that, and like I say, there were some fights and some issues, but you found that, that’s just my personal opinion, in the numbers of suspensions and dismissals, it fell heavier on the blacks than it did the white guys because when we went up there it was just kind of, ‘you outta here’…

ES: Yes.

CB: It was a lot of fights. By some of the younger, you know, it wasn’t bad, I have to admit it ain’t nothing like I guess it could’ve been after I learned in our little ‘70s issues over there, but there were issues and I just say I think being into the dominance of the white, we had to take a lot of slack and we got blamed a lot of times just because we were new there.

FF: And the thing about it, there were a few students from here that had gone on before us, before the integration took place . . .

SD: By choice, correct?…

FF: . . . yeah, there by choice so they were, you know, more accustomed to it than we were. And the thing about it, you had to learn how to get around, maneuver from class to class and know where you were going. That, to me that kind of frustrated me.

CB: Way bigger campus.

FF: Yeah, yeah, and it frustrated me more so, but I just kind of hung in there. Go home in the afternoon, my mom was kind of quiet, subtle person, she said, you know, “How was your day? What happened today?” I said, “Well, it was okay.” She said, “Well, you just gotta hang in there and do what you gotta do.” She said, “Just do your part and things’ll work out.” And in the end it worked out, it truly worked out. I mean, at the end of the year it was a little bit better, we graduated and, you know, it was pretty good, you know, at the end of the year. But that first part was just the adjustment period we had to go through.

SD: The visual of that is so overwhelming.

CB: I remember some of the students that had gone early, you know, they were…I won’t say ‘excellent’ students here–but they were, I’d say they were at least ‘B’ students here [Fairfield High School], and they went over there that year and flunked.

FF: Yeah.

CB: A lot of them did that first year there. So when they got dropped out we all was looking like, and say, ‘ooohhh goodness if they went and . . . it’s gonna be looking kinda bad’… I’m saying for myself. I wasn’t exactly a dummy but I know these people, I considered them to be a little smarter than me because they were ‘A, B’ students here, and they had went over there and failed. I’m like, ‘ooh, we ain’t gonna make it over there’.

SD: Why do you think that was? Do you think, why do you think they didn’t do as well there? Were the teachers harder on them or was the preparation not the same as it was?

CB: I think it was just kind of like it was for us: it’s just too new for them, too.

FF: Um-hum, adjustment.

SD: The adjustment?

CB: Because like I say it was voluntary, it was voluntary. We didn’t have to go, in ’69?

FF: Yeah.

CB: That’s when they left here voluntarily and say, ‘well we goin’ to the white school out here’,  so everybody’s kind of like, ‘well we gonna wait and see happens there’. But I remember people like Yvette Davis, who were school teacher’s children or, you know, good middle-class families who did well on this campus, but the majority of them went over there that first year and they failed.

ES: Some came back. Some went and came back.

CB: Yeah, or they graduated with us because they had missed that year over there.

SD: Why did the students that chose to go, why do you think the choice when there was a choice involved? Why do you, was it their family?

CB: I think families in–I’ll just say this, I think their families wanted a little more for them and they seen it coming, versus some families just kind of wait and see what’s gonna happen.

SD: So it was in the air, there was the knowledge that it was, was coming.

FF: Um-hum, yeah something was gonna happen.

CB: The cloud was there.

ES: Um-hum.

FF: Yeah.

SD: How did that feel? I’m trying to wrap my brain around what that must’ve felt like–of knowing there was that . . .

CB: Well, just, like I say, just to know that you’re being, ‘I’m forced’, you know, ‘we shuttin’ it down’, so…

FF: Against your will. You got to go.

CB: Yeah. You gonna have to come up to snuff, or you’re gonna get thrown outside the wayside. And believe it or not, just from a personal opinion, we got a lot–a good many students from our graduating class who did not graduate because of that transition. They just–I guess they felt like failures there.

SD: Well and you had mentioned before they were the ones that were getting suspended and getting, you know, somewhat targeted . . .

CB: We was just out of place, you know, we just couldn’t get it right, per se.

SD: How has that continued, or has it continued, to be a pervasive–to be in your mind as you’ve left school? Has it continued to be a part of your story? Has it continued to influence how you think about education and, you know, younger members of your family?

CB: Well I would just, you know, our struggle then was a lot less than the struggle now. I mean, because I don’t, like my parents weren’t super educated but they always instilled in the fact, get an education, get the best education you can, you know, don’t just go in there and sit up (unintelligible 25:23) bring something home, in your head. And I didn’t have a lot of encouragement, what I did have kind of, you better get it on your own if you plan to make it in this world, education is gonna pay, knowledge is good, get much as you can. And I left high school lacking. I know I was, ain’t no doubt in my mind. Not to say I was a dummy but I didn’t get what I should’ve picked up. Ms. Madonia Alexander (sp.)–which was one of our school teachers here–I got kicked out of Algebra for bothering (unintelligible 25:59), and she kicked me out of algebra for the rest of the year.

And so over the years when you, you know, when my career kind of started out math was an issue. And I never, I always insult myself the fact if you gotta sit up in there and act like you had some sense. This numbers factor went and did the job on you that it did to yourself. And to this day I’m waiting to see her and apologize for that foolishness in her class because, well I’m a thirtly-two year recovering alcoholic, too, so you know the twelve-step program–the people you wrong, you try to go back and correct it. But I always blamed my dumbness in math on the fact that you couldn’t sit up in there and listen to what this lady was saying, because as a welder–I became a high pressure welder with all the skills except nuclear components–and it’s a lot of math in there. And every time I got a problem I say, ‘you dummy, Ms. Alexander could’ve saved you from that’. But it just happened.

SD: Wow, so that continued to sit with you.

CB: Yeah, it still bothers me. Because it didn’t–I could’ve did a lot better. I know I could.

FF: And we had some excellent teachers here.

CB: Yeah.

ES: We did.

FF: I mean, they were the ones that . . .

CB: They cared. They want you to get an education.

FF: . . . they cared. If you went home and you didn’t have that atmosphere at home, when you were here it was, you were focused. I mean, cause at home you had chores, you had, like back then they were farming and, you know, some days you couldn’t come to school because you had to stay home and take care of the other siblings or whatever while they farmed and so forth. But when you got here the teachers, matter of fact one we still have, well she’s still living with us now, our English teacher, Ms. Ross–she is ninety-two years old–she’s still on it. She’s focused. You see her, she knows who you are and she wanna make sure that you’re doin’ what you’re supposed to be doin’.

SD: Still.

FF: Yeah, still.

ES: And our teachers, they cared so much for us, they would come to our homes and make home visits.

FF: Yeah, definitely so.

CB: Absolutely.

ES: Um-hum, and so if you . . .

CB: I knew I was in trouble when they did, but it was always . . .

(laughter)

ES: They would come to your home, and they was concerned about us and talked to our parents, and just let them know that, ‘Easter did so and so and so in class today, and I just wanna let you know about what she did’.

SD: Wow. And I bet your parents listened to the teacher.

ES: Oh yes.

CB: Absolutely.

ES: Because I knew I was gon’ get it when they left.

CB: Yeah…

ES: Um-hum.

FF: Yeah, ‘cause even in the elementary school, I had one teacher–I got a little bad one day–she says, “Don’t worry, I don’t have to write a note, I know where you live. I know your mom and dad. I will see you this afternoon.” And you kind of perked up then . . .

ES: Yes!

FF: . . . . you said, “Oh my gosh, let me get myself together”,  because of that.

CB: Best presentation I can present.

ES: Yeah.

FF: Um-hum, they put the fear in you. Yes.

SD: And it sounds like they were invested in you.

ES: Yeah, definitely so.

SD: And that must’ve felt, you know, important.

FF: It did. Very much so.

ES: Um-hum.

CB: You wanted to be wanted, I mean.

SD: And do you think that, that most likely changed when this school . . . you mentioned ‘the doors were shut’, is how you put it.

ES: Yes, it was.

SD: Was that lost when those doors were shut?

ES: I felt it was. I felt it was, because we didn’t have that closeness, that bond that we had here. When we got over there.

FF: The only time you saw the results when you saw the report card, you know, if you weren’t doing what you were supposed to do, you know, you saw that report card and said, oh my gosh, what have I got this grade? What was going on here? What can I do extra?  And, you know, sometimes we stayed after school to kind of catch up or either do extra, you know, curriculum to try to catch up and make sure we were on the right track.

SD: Was there extra support for the students? You said that it was harder at the new school and some of the students struggled. There was transition going on, there was a lot, a lot going on. Was there extra support for these students that were going through such a major transition?

ES: It was help available, but it still was up to the student to go in and get it.

CB: Yeah.

ES: And I guess they didn’t feel like they could.

CB: I think here it was the perception of the teachers were so focused on their students they knew more who needed it than you did yourself. Over there it was kind of like . . .

FF: You on your own.

CB: . . . you know, you was raised up with these people, our teacher lived right across the street over there, one of our teachers to this room right down there. So she was not only connected to you . . .

FF: In school.

CB: . . . in school but out of school she knew your background, you know, they knew your, not say failures but your weaknesses I’d say.

ES: Yes, and some of them went to the same church that their students went to.

CB: Yeah, you had a lot of church . . .

SD: What did you feel–how did race relations look outside of school during this time of choice and of the forced integration? What did . . .

ES: There was no mixing for me.

SD: None?

ES: None.

SD: Was that a family decision or…?

ES: That just the way it was. Just like ‘you know your place’.

SD: And you had said your mother said . . .

ES: ‘Keep your mouth closed and don’t get in no trouble’.

SD: So the not mixing was probably the easiest . . .

ES: Yes, um-hum.

SD: . . . way to . . . what about for the rest of you?

CB: I grew up in town here, like on Saturday evening, when you could come to Winnsboro, that was our once a week trip when I was growing up as a child;  like from first grade, second grade. And I did experience–they had water fountains, ‘black only’, ‘white only’: restrooms, ‘black only’, ‘white only’. The bus station was always black only–had a ‘white’ side and a ‘black’ side. The doctor’s office;  Dr. Floyd’s office on Main Street: you go in, and you go left to the ‘white’ side, and the right to the ‘black’ side. And it always confused me, I’m like, ‘well why we goin’ through different’–I used to ask my mother, she’d tell me, “Child, hush.”

“Why we goin’ in this door and he goin’ in that door, and we gon’ meet in the back in the same room”, you know?  And that was just accepted. That’s just the way it was.

ES: No mixin’.

CB: And it didn’t seem to be any animosity about it because everybody knew where everybody was.

ES: Knew your place.

CB: With, you know–it wasn’t no goin’ in there, raisin’ no sand about it. Because it’s done, that’s the way it is.

FF: It’s just like now as compared to back then, I’ve got just as many white friends as I have black friends.

ES: I have too.

FF: And, you know, work with people–like Easter says, she worked forty-plus years in banking: I did the same. I did about forty-two years in banking, and just recently–it was kind of like…basically I would compare it to my job closing down; the bank closing down, where I worked just in April, I can compare that to the school shutting down, because it was just like, boom, you know, you don’t have a job. What do I do? Do you have insurance? This, that and the other, things like that kind of  came up. And it was just like everything just shut right quick-like, you know, they came in one day and said, ‘well we closin’ down April twelfth’, and you walk in here in the building and say, ‘well tomorrow you gon’ be bused over to the . . .’

CB: Because they never really put that on us saying they was coming.

FF: No, they just . . . we wasn’t prepared.

CB: It wasn’t anything we seen in the future. That just like on a Tuesday evening, bam!–the school’s closing. We never, I never heard it–the forecast.

SD: It was in the middle of the school year–I guess my assumption was it was at the beginning of the school year: You went home for the summer and then came back… But it was in the beginning–it was just in the middle..?

CB: It was just flat out the school is gone.

FF: Um-hum, and I guess . . .

CB: No choice.

ES: If–we wasn’t mentally prepared;  I guess if they would’ve talked to us, say, like a month or two months, ‘okay we going to the new school and . . . ‘

CB: Yeah, get you ready in some aspects of what’s coming…Didn’t happen.

ES: Yeah, ‘this is what to expect when you get there’. And we didn’t get a tour before, just like we didn’t know where to go. We was just let off the bus. And what–everybody go to the gym, is that where we went?

FF: Yeah, I think we went to the gym.

CB: Yeah.

ES: Yeah. And then said, ‘well you go to your perspective classes: this is your teacher, this is your homeroom teacher’. You had to find your class, you know. And then, ‘this is your next class’, the bell rings, you late goin’ to class, you tryin’ to find what room to go to, and the bell rings and you out in the hallway. I say, ‘oh my God, what’s gon’ take place next’?

FF: Just looking all around.

CB: Um-hum.

FF: And you had, I have to grant you, you had a few students there that, you know, would say, you know, ‘where you tryin’ to find’, very few at that time. And then as the year progressed on it got better, a little bit better, but it wasn’t–you know, it was always that hang over your head, you know, you still in the wrong place.

CB: Um-hum.

ES: Yeah, and then too–or what happened too–our senior year we had a lot of white students, but by the time we graduated they had gone, a bunch of them had went to other places. Uh-huh, they parents took them out of the school and sent them in other directions.

SD: Really?

ES: Um-hum.

SD: Wow. So that’s how they handled the transition then.

ES: Yes. Um-hum.

FF: Yeah, some of them were focusin’–

ES: –I think they built that new school over there, too, what, Richard Winn?

CB: Richard Winn Academy.

FF: Richard Winn, the private school.

ES: A private school. And then some was bused all the way downtown Columbia…

CB: Um-hum.

FF: Um-hum.

ES: I mean with us, you know, we carpooled.

CB: Yeah, because there wasn’t a bus.

ES: Uh-huh.

SD: …As an alternative to staying there.

ES: Yeah, they didn’t want them in the integrated school.

CB: Yeah, because a lot of the teachers over there had children who were actually students there but they didn’t, they left, they went somewhere else. Sure did. I know a few: Ms. Gladys Bass’ son, you know, but he did graduate with us, and again we went in the Navy the same time, but–

ES: –Lunsford?

CB: –Lunsford Lewis..?

ES: Lunsford, um-hum.

CB: We were friends because I worked with his father at a service station five years, but when we went to Winnsboro High, we never became ‘friend-friend’ friends, we–you know, ‘your father own the business that I worked at’… he’d come down there, we’d wash cars together, we’d pump gas together, but– and actually, we joined the Navy at the same time together. He went on to become a Navy pilot I think, but I don’t know what happened after the last forty-something years but, you know, we were just like this until it came to the big move. And we divided and never really made it up again. We went our separate ways.

SD: I’m sitting here trying to picture it all. It’s fascinating and sad . . .

CB: Oh, it’s crazy. Because I remember, I’d come home, and his mother–who was a school teacher–his father who I had worked for as a child, in my–thirteen, fourteen–I remember the day his father hired me, I went there, “I need a job.” He say–I was twelve or thirteen and I had on short pants–he say, “You look like you too short: you can’t even clean all the way across a windshield on a car.” He said, “Plus them short pants and legs just don’t look good.” So I got back on my bike and rode back to Black Jack. I put on me some long pants and I took a thing–made somethin’ like a shoe shine stand–I made me a little carton where I could stand up on it and reach all the way across. He said, “Well you tryin’, I’ll give you a try.” And I stayed there five years. And like I say, his father owned the business, but we were real buddies working there, and when we got to high school we–I don’t even think we ever talked ten minutes in that high school…

SD: Was that surprising to you or? Was it just the way it was?

CB: It was just the way it was.

ES: That just the way it was. Um-hum.

CB: And I remember when I came home from the military, his mother who had been a former teacher at the transitioning school, she had seen me out there and she was–like because I had worked for her husband they knew me not only just as a student but as a worker for the family–I had been to their house before to deliver things maybe or whatever, but she was interested in what I had did with my life. She said, “Charlie, whatchu been doin’?” And I explained to her that I’d a tour in the military and at that time I was working at Fort Eustis Aviation Research and Development, so she was concerned and glad that I had, you know, “Yeah, I know you had it in ya, you was always bright.”

And I knew that too, but like I say it was different. At that high school she knew me too, but it wasn’t no contact. There was no real contact. She knew me just like her son, because at three-thirty, we goin’ to work down to the service station; me and her son was gon’ be together three, four hours; he’d kick me, I’d shoot him with water. But it was a whole two different worlds, it was two different worlds.

SD: Do you remember the things that you were hearing about the Civil Rights Movement in general outside of this community? Things that were happening, whether it was in Alabama or in Atlanta, in the big cities that you heard more about? Do you remember as a child, as a teenager, hearing about things?

CB: I heard about them, I mean, you know, through the media: news and things, you know, that they’ll riot in Alabama and Selma and Montgomery, but it just–for this little, small town it never came to that boil. You know it’s here, I mean, you know that, it definitely…it was obvious everywhere with the merchants, with the system overall, but it never sparked violence the way it had in some other–across the country I’d say. We never had a major . . . everybody grew up right here, you know. Like: I know where you live, I know your mother, I know your grandfather, even whether you black, white or indifferent. So I don’t, I just don’t see a whole lot of fireworks. It just kind of went on under the rug.

SD: Had you heard about, I mean…were you hearing it in real time?

ES: Oh yes, yes, I heard about it but, we never had the march or protest or anything like that. I don’t recall doing any of that…my parents or anybody–

CB: They wouldn’t have allowed it. My parents wouldn’t, ‘you ain’t goin’ over there and march with nobody’. So, you know, that would’ve been the mentality of that.

ES: Yeah, we never had to do anything like that.

FF: That’s true. I mean, heard about it, saw it on the news and that was it. Didn’t participate in any of that.

ES: No.

SD: So it wasn’t something you heard about and thought, ‘oh we need to do that here’?

FF: No.

SD: It just wouldn’t have been appropriate.

CB: …It wasn’t gonna happen.

ES: …We would never take it to that level.

FF: No.

SD: Why do you think that is? Why do you think that was?

CB: Because this small town depended on each other. You know, if you was a white merchant you depending on business, and a lot of it was black business. And if you black, you had to have food; you gotta buy shoes and clothes, so that kind of kept the community tight-knitted, I believe.

FF: And then, on top of that, the majority of the community, or the area, was black and you had, you know, white merchants and so forth.

ES: Yes.

FF: So basically he’s, you know, what he’s saying is true, they had to depend, you know.

ES: Yes, and a lot of the blacks worked for the white–I mean, white folk.

FF: Um-hum.

ES: Because what it was–Uniroyal back then, at that time?

CB: Yeah.

FF: Yeah.

ES: Yeah, now you can’t go up in there and start no stuff up in there. You could lose your job so you think about your family. Yeah, what we had to do to survive.

SD: Once you left the high school did you find yourself staying in touch with the school district and things that were going on here, or were you done with it for that point in time and detached from it?

ES: Well, when I left Winnsboro High I didn’t look back. Not at Winnsboro High, I didn’t.

CB: Nah, it never dawned on me again because it was a whole new, I mean–it ain’t like I had a lot to take away from it, to put somewhere up ahead of me. Because I was thinking…when I actually left here–I’m a small town country boy, my military application was a textile worker, I remember that vividly, when I applied for the military. Well, I think I’m gonna be a gunner’s mate, so the next thing I know they got me on a thing, with a gun, in room this big. You know, it took me about six months to realize, ‘where you gonna work on a gun this big as a civilian, when you finish, when you get out’, so… ‘Oh well, you better’ . . . and it just–my whole train of thought just come up, ‘well you better do somethin’ you can do as an outsider’. And it (unintelligible 42:10) ‘be a welder’,  and I just focused on it, and that’s where it went for forty years…

SD: Sounds like it worked out really well.

CB: It worked. I made it work.

SD: What about you? Did you stay involved with the school district at all once you were done?

FF: When I graduated from college I did come back, and I was a substitute for a little while. But I didn’t really stay in tune with the school, but I had siblings coming behind me that were here.

SD: Because you had eleven in your family…?

FF: Yeah. Yeah, and there were, like three younger than me and I knew they would be coming to Winnsboro High. And to them, that adjustment was fine because–

SD: –It was easier for them?

FF:  –it was easier for them. It was much easier for them.

CB: Different atmosphere; different whole world by then.

FF: My sister and brother, they just had it like a piece of cake, ‘cause we had went through all the rough parts of it.

CB: I remember actually going back over there, ’94 maybe, believe it or not, I published a book–a poem–that’s been published, and the school somehow found out about it.

ES: I remember that.

SD: About the school?

CB: Well, they found out that I was a poet from this local area, and they wanted me to come over there and just talk to the school, the students, about the possibilities of poetry. And I did go over there.

SD: How did that feel?

CB: It–like I was in somebody else’s room (laughter)–because it wasn’t what I was used to when I was there, and we’re talking twenty years…

SD: I mean, you were somebody who was unwelcome, as you guys describe it.  when you were seventeen, eighteen…and now you’re the invited guest…

CB: Went back at thirty-five, and . . .

SD: –To speak in a place of honor to these students…. You made it. Wow.

FF: So I guess times had changed a little.

CB: Yeah, the definitely, like you said, you know, everybody was comfortable then, because it was some high-rollin’ emotions during our era… I mean, you know, it was there. And a couple-a times it festered: argument between, I know, what they call down on the Mill Village–what they—‘cause the white boys on the Mill Village, they was more a little rowdier than the upper class white guys who wasn’t gon’ raise any sand, because their parents was the one who owned all these business, so they couldn’t be out there. But they had some more provocative guys, like, ‘you better not walk through the Mill Village after six o’clock, ‘cause they gonna knock you out’. It wasn’t so much true because I worked all over that place as a ten, eleven, twelve year old. I never got mugged—beat–because I mean, I didn’t have nothin’ to argue about, fight about. They told me to go, I went, you know, but I worked all over the place, never got beat up, mugged or anything. But the fear was there.

SD: Well, you talked a little bit about how no more sports teams and proms and that, I’m assuming those things were still happening with the school when you . . . but that you guys weren’t involved in it, is that . . .

ES: We wasn’t invited because I know the first, they had a private prom, and I think that started the first fight there, fist fight. They had a private prom for the white students at National Guard Armory.

SD: And ‘private’ meant that you weren’t invited.

ES: We wasn’t invited, and we wasn’t given the opportunity to even plan us a prom. And so that’s when the–it was a fist fight that day. The policemans had to come. Yeah. …Do y’all remember the assistant principal, Ms. Maner (sp.)…?

FF: Yeah.

CB: Um-hum.

ES: Oh now,  she would call the police, and she was–everything,–director, assistant principal…

CB: Yeah, yeah…bus director…

ES: …I never seen a woman could get around so fast.

CB: She was fast. I don’t know… Whatever happened to her?…

ES: …I don’t know.

FF: …I don’t even know.

SD: She was a white woman and she would call the police?…

CB: ..She was a white woman.

ES: Oh, she would call the police.

FF: She was even over the buses that year.

CB: (unintelligible 45:55) and she fired me a couple times.

(laughter)

SD: Wow, and so they had a private prom. So they continued with what they were already doing and just excluded you.

ES: Excluded us, yeah.

SD: What about that caused the fight, do you remember specifically? Was it when it was announced that it was going to be a private prom…?

CB: It was the night of the prom I think. Didn’t some guys go over there and–

ES: Well, I don’t know about the night of the prom but–

CB: –to actually disrupt it or whatever…

ES: –but I know we got to school that Monday, it was some fist fights out there, and some name calling. And next thing I know we was gettin’ on the bus, going back to Ridgeway. You remember that, Fannie? We come to school? We didn’t stay in school that Monday. I think we left there before twelve o’clock that day…. ‘All the students that ride the bus, return to your buses immediately’.

SD: Because it was that bad of an environment that day?

ES: Well it was two Pauling guys, it was Stanley Pauling, and Butch Pauling, and Arthur Gaither, and all I heard–what’s the guy name?–Pearson guy? . . .

CB: Sammy?

ES: . . . that married the Samuels girl? That married Brenda Samuels?

FF: What, David…?

ES: David… All I saw was fist fighting, and name calling, and ‘I’m gon’ do this’ and ‘I’m gon’ do that’. Next thing I know the intercom came on, “Everybody return to your buses. If you bused in, return to your buses immediately.” Um-hum.

SD: And that’s how they handled it.

ES: Yes. Yeah–and they just, well, I’m gon’ say they nipped it in the bud, or they shut it down. Yeah. Um-hum.

SD: Do you know if–maybe with your younger siblings—did–in future years, the students quickly get to start being on the athletics teams, and they integrated into the . . .

ES: Um-hum.

FF: Yeah.

CB: Yeah, I say it was a couple of years later with just the . . .

ES: Yeah, things had done kind of. . .

CB: . . . in the beginning, they didn’t want you on there, I don’t care how good you was as a football player, or how many yards you gained, you …(unintelligible 47:42)

ES: And what about the cheerleaders?

CB: Ain’t gon’ be none…

ES: Uh-uh. It was Meryl Davis and Sylvia Jones–both of those girls they are deceased now. I remember we was having a basketball game one night and they was cheering, and some of the awfulest, words were said to those girls, that you ever wanted to hear… So they cried and they sat down.

SD: And they were African American women that were on the cheerleading squad?

ES: Cheerleading.

SD: And so . . . I saw some of the different cheerleading and things up there.

ES: Um-hum. And they were good cheerleaders, too.

CB: Oh yeah.

ES: Oh yeah, they were real good.

SD: But there was name calling by the others when they would go up to participate.

ES: Um-hum.

SD: Was it predominately–if you can remember, I know it was a while ago—but, the other students that were causing issues or was it the parents?

CB: Students, it was mostly students.

ES: And, and parents . . .

CB: Yeah, incited by some of the students: you knew who they were. Wayne– became the chief of police here–he was one little rowdy redneck. He always talkin’, you know, he was talkin’ about, ‘go back to Africa’… He’ll call you a monkey–all that–and they’d cut that ass…We’d catch him we’d beat the shit outta that boy…

(laughter)

FF: You’re talking about . . .

ES: [ ]

CB: Yeah, man he was one cruel lil’ fella,  but that was just his demeanor.

SD: And now he’s . . .

FF: And he would get beat up, too.

SD: . . . then he became the chief of police here?

CB: Became the chief of police here, yeah he did. He retired chief of police.

FF: Yeah, he retired, um-hum.

CB: But I remember him distinctively, because he would call you the name, he was just one rowdy little fella. And he got beat up enough to change, but he never did. And I think his parents, you know, they were kind of, ‘go ahead and raise a ‘lil sand if you wanted’,  because they didn’t ever do nothing to him. But I know–I remember him distinctively.

FF: But then as the years went by that demeanor changed, you know.

CB: Yeah.

ES: He calmed down.

FF: Yeah, calmed down and, you know…

SD: If you were to look back on it how would the–how did the experience change who you are, change your life–influence your life?

ES: Well, it made me stronger. It really made me stronger; I say, ‘if I went through that I can, I can go through that over there, I can do this over here’. Um-hum. And I graduated and I had a good report card.

SD: I love that, I love that.

FF: It made me focus on doing a lot better with things, because when I first got out of college, you know, it was hard back then to find a job, and when I found one it was back here in Fairfield County. And I was approached–I was at a democratic meeting or something–and I met up with one of the ladies–she was the only black working in the bank at that time. And she said, “Have you found you a job yet?” I says, “No.” She said, “Well we got a position open. You interested in it?” I said, “Well, I been lookin’, I can’t find anything in my field.” I said, well I may as well go ahead and give it a try. And I came and went for the interview, and couple-a days later I got a call saying, “You’re hired.” It was strange working, you know, coming back to Fairfield County and working, you know, in a predominately white business with just two people–two blacks–but it worked out. I mean, we got to so it was totally different, became more like a family oriented and the manager of the bank, I mean, it worked out.

He was kind of rough on us–not rough as far as black/whites–but he wanted you to do your job and do it to the best. He didn’t want to have to stand there and micromanage you, and that kind of made me feel, you know, like, ‘if I can do this I can do much more’. And I instilled that in my children and my grand–you know, I mean ‘cause now grandkids, I mean, they play black and white, it doesn’t matter and, you know, they’re just workin’ and playin’ together: best of friends. So it worked out. I mean, I think that, to me, has made a world of difference, I mean, because we all here, I mean, because things are happenin’ all over, and when something happens we come together and work together as two human beings, not as black and white.

CB: I had to be better. I just had to be better than the next guy. And I took it, you know, I excelled, I would have to say, pretty well in the military. The average E6, in the Navy, because Navy was, you know, they didn’t like black guys per se, in the beginning either.

SD: Really? No, I didn’t.

CB: …Because they want you to go in the Army. In the ‘70s, you got recruited, be nine times outta ten be the Army. The Navy, the Air Force…they didn’t accept blacks too well.

SD: I did not know that.

CB: And if you did, you couldn’t go in engineering. I went in the Navy–country boy, no real (unintelligible 52:42) but I was going–I was determined I was gonna work in engineering. That’s why it took me three years to kinda inch into engineerin’, when I got my first welding certifications it started in San Diego and it was like a fifty-two week course to complete basic welding all the way to high pressure pipe.

In order for me to achieve the high pressure pipe I gotta re-enlist for six years. I did it because I wanted that. And when it all ended the average white guy you ask, “You retired in the Navy?” “Yeah, I retired.” “What’s your rank?” I say, “E6.” I made E6 in five and a half years in the Navy. Because I was determined to be better than the one behind me and in front of me. You know, I got several you would not believe my friends, y’all wouldn’t even believe me, for the citations, commendations and the things I did as a sailor, as a Desert Storm, as a merchant marine, because I excelled, I wanted to be better. You had to go to beat me out almost in anything. I mean, I was so cool, I boxed for six years in the Navy. I would beat myself up, I wanted to be number one. I didn’t wanna go out no loser. You drop the ball, no I gotta be the best I can be, and like I say I didn’t become president or nothin’ but I always excelled in what I did.

SD: Sure sounds like you made a difference.

CB: I tried, I tried to make a difference.

SD: Sounds like you did. Do you see–I mean, this is a small community–do you see the classmates around in town now on a regular basis, the white classmates that you were integrated with at the time?

ES: I don’t.

CB: I seen one lady about a month ago. I don’t even remember her name, but I know that was her. And I wouldn’t have dared just kind of…I don’t know how she would’ve took it, I don’t . . . for the reason, if I could’ve called her name I would’ve spoke to her, just to touch that little base, but I know, she’s a red-head lady with kind of big eyes. But I seen her face in the store, and I’m like, ‘wow…’, and it’s only about three, I’d say–I can count ‘em on this hand–how many white did I remember goin’ to that school with, and see ‘em on the street today….it’s very few…

FF: I guess back then was different for me, because I came to work here and I got to see a lot of them that I went to school with comin’ into the bank, you know, and got to know their parents and so forth, and you know, knew that we went to school together. It was a little bit different but yeah, it was fine. And, like, right now I walk into some of the stores up here, I hadn’t been up here in years, and they’ll say, “Fannie.” And just call me by, and you know, gettin’ older, I can’t remember (laughter), and go, “What is your name?”

CB: Yeah, and they call you by your name and . . .

FF: Yeah, they call me by name, I say, ‘oh my God’. And to this day my husband tickles me, he laughs at me when somebody’ll walk up and speak to me, or walk up and, you know, greet me or somethin’, and he says, “Who was that?” I say, “Oh my gosh, I can’t think of . . .” and I can be ridin’ down the road and all of a sudden, be like a light go off, (clap) I know who that was now!

(laughter)

CB: Yeah, two days ago . . .

FF: But I’m just that way: I have to know. And sometimes I’ll say, ‘gosh who am I talkin’ to, just please tell me’… I’ll use the line, “You know I’m gettin’ older, I’m not young as I used to be.” So I use that line to get the point across. But I did have the opportunity to, you know, see some of the classmates that I went to school with at Winnsboro High, when I came to work here in Winnsboro, so… But it was . . .

SD: But there aren’t class reunions or that kind of thing that involve . . .

FF: Not, no, not . . .

CB: And I was kind of surprised because, you know, I would’ve just thought at least one would’ve showed up for ours, I mean, we no objections to it, but…ain’t like I could run out and recruit . . .

SD: So you all still have your class reunion.

ES: Oh yes.

FF: And we advertise it in the paper.

ES: Yes, we do.

CB: Yeah! I mean, I would’ve been more than happy to have any of our classmates just to show up, I mean, I ain’t mad at nobody.

SD: I feel that from you, yeah.

FF: And we always acknowledge them on our list, you know, that this is one of our classmates or somethin’ after they pass away or whatever, we’ll get a note from our secretary sayin’, you know, this person passed away or whatever, it was one of our classmates. And we acknowledge it, you know.

CB: Gone-by era.

ES: But we just didn’t get to know them that well.

CB: We didn’t have enough time.

FF: In that short period of time.

ES: It went by so fast. Yeah, because it took the whole year to get it settled down. Yes, and so it just . . .

CB: And like I say by the time it settled down it was, it was time to go.

ES: Time to go. Time for us to go.

CB: So nothing really got done other than–like I know everybody say, ‘whew, we got through the year’, and just moved everybody on out and I’m sure the next year or two it probably was better because, like I say, I left after then, I didn’t make no more connections. It was years when I went back–as a matter of fact, I went back over there, my daughter was in school and it was a madhouse then. Oh man! The lady, you know, and the teachers over there, they’re constantly, “Sit down! Stop!” Woman run this thing like a prison! Gracious! But it was never that during our era, it was calm. You know, you had to make–you had to maintain.

SD: Do you feel the importance of what you did… of that year? Do you look back and feel the importance of what it was that you did as (unintelligible 58:12) people?

FF: Just surviving and kind of paving the way for our–the younger group to come forward, yeah.

SD: That’s kind of what I mean, yeah, do you see that you paved that way for your children? You mentioned a grandchild…

ES: Um-hum.

CB: But it’s hard for them to pick it up because they won’t, they like, “What are you talkin’ about?… You know: ‘this door was left and black, and this door was right and white’, you know, you crazy?!? Who accepted that?”…We did…

ES: Yeah, they don’t wanna believe it.

CB: He said, “No this dude gotta be crazy, man!” I said, “Yeah, that’s the way it was.” And it was acceptable.

SD: That’s what you guys have done for us: these interviews today, because we’ve read so much about it in our classes, and of course I’ve lived in South Carolina, but to see the people and hear the stories, it’s just amazing. So it’s been such a gift. If you were to look at the situation you went through, race relations then, and the situation now in Fairfield, what would you describe as the difference between the two?

FF: Basically going through, like we went through, I look back say for example, the hurricanes: people worked together. There was more close-knitness, I mean, blacks and whites cleaned up for each other and they helped each other, you know, during that time and going forward. And as far as today, you see more integrated marriages.

CB: I think we had a little bit of economic prosperity; like when they opened Mack Truck it drew a lot of people in here that was here all the time but now they got to work with each other, just a simple job together and they kind of tighten the whole county up. And then a lot of them was from other places; Mack Truck brought people here from other areas and they got to intermingle with the ones, so the economy, when you got a job and you go to work with these people you learn a little bit about them, you know.

FF: You get along better.

CB: You lived here all your life.

SD: That’s your example, what you were sharing.

ES: Yes, you get along better.

FF: Um-hum.

CB: When they created the nuclear plant over there–not that one, the first one–when I used to come home–I was stationed in Virginia during that time, but everybody in the county was working at VC Summer, everybody. If you want a job, go to VC Summer. And I know all of my brothers and cousins, they worked over there in some capacity or another, and they knew other people–white and black–from the same area who, that’s where they met at. VC Summer.

ES: Yeah, when the economy’s better, everything is better.

SD: That’s right. That’s right.

CB: Because Lord knows we ain’t got much (unintelligible 1:00:47) here in Winnsboro. Once upon a time downtown Main Street was a congregation. You know, on Saturday evenings you could go down there and everybody from town and around would be there. You go down there on Saturday now, you’re like, ‘whoa…’ it’s just no difference, because the economy moved to the bypass, or Blythewood or . . . We kind of lost because all our business for one, left here and it’s nothin’ to meet for nothin’ to even meet about, actually…

SD: You guys mentioned that this was your classroom.

CB: This very room.

SD: Yeah, I love that. I love that–that’s why I wanted to snag this room for us. How do you feel when you walk in this building? What does it mean to you?

ES: I feel good. Yes, ‘cause I learned a lot here at this school. And what I learned here, I use it daily, every day.

CB: It took me around the globe. I been to every country in the world, I think almost, except Russia and some others further than that. And I always prided myself on the old country boy, boat on Norway, Land of the Midnight Sunshine. I called my sister, and I thought it was Judgment Day: ‘God when did it turn daylight at two o’clock in the morning!’ And I said, “Oh Lord, I just wish I’d have died closer to home, but this just happenin’ and I can’t change it… (laughter) This ol’ boy don’t know it when it turned broad daylight.. Oh, it’s gotta be Judgment Day (unintelligible 1:02:12).” I mean, far sides of the world, but it all came from right here: that little building down there, the gym… And I just think if I could’ve been just two percent more interested I, I wonder what I could’ve actually done, but I did my best. I did pretty good, you know, but…

SD: You did amazingly. What do you feel when you walk in the front door?

FF: I just remember where the office was, and across the office, I remember I had French and…

CB: –Ms. Roseborough.

ES: Roseborough.

FF: Ms. Roseborough. And I went on to college and I had to take a foreign language and I say, ‘oh my gosh, I’m not going to take Spanish,’ and back then it was French more so than today, I say, ‘well thank goodness I went to French class’. And some of the same things she had taught me was there at the school–at Benedict–as far as French class. And it just brings back memories of the teachers, of being here in the building, and the teachers that were here in front of those desks that, you know, gosh some of them are still living, some of them are passed on, but some of them are still living strong and in their eighties and nineties and so forth… It just makes me think, ‘gosh, I came through this building; let me live and have that longevity like they did.

SD: And that impact, it was just amazing to see in all of you. Well, does anybody have anything else they’d like to share, any story we didn’t hit on or anything else you want to make sure we capture in terms of…

ES: Let me tell you about the class ring. It was a big deal with us here at Fairfield with our class ring. So when we went to Winnsboro High, when we got ready to order our class rings the representative from the Josten Company was there and they did let us make a choice, whether we wanted the Winnsboro High ring or the Fairfield High ring. And I remember (unintelligible 1:04:06, sounds like Darsheen) Belton and I, we in line and we were almost in tears because it just broke us down I guess because, you know, we’re not graduating from Fairfield High School, but they gon’ offer us a Fairfield High School ring, but we graduated from Winnsboro High. And so we were just in line, so we didn’t know, we was just confused. And, but we made up our mind, and so we went on and got the Winnsboro High ring. But then after we had ordered the ring we felt so guilty…I mean, you know, it just didn’t settle well. Yeah, but anyway Ms. Ross said, “Well y’all got to get the Winnsboro High ring.” You know, ‘cause that’s what we signed the paper for…But anyway.

SD: Do you still have it?

ES: No. No.

CB: I gave my ring to Venus Moore and she married somebody else…

(laughter)

ES: No, I had it–somebody broke into my house.

FF: Yeah, we had a break in and somebody stole my husband’s and mine.

SD: Do you remember getting to choose? Which one did you?

FF: I think I chose the Winnsboro High ring. And see he had a Fairfield ring because he was in the class of ’70; but we had a break in and somebody took the whole jewelry box, so…

SD: Wow…Anything else; any other stories anybody wants to make sure we capture?

CB: It was a nice conversation…It was so many…

ES: …Yeah.

FF: …We enjoyed that for sure.

CB: And like I say…what do you feel when you really walk in this door up here?…I mean, I always feel refreshed to just…because you know, when you to go elementary school, like this little building shrunk on me, and I exploded, but when I come back here…we were pretty much almost adults when we came here. So you can come back here and see the little chairs that we got here now, which weren’t the exact replicas of what was here, but the teachers, the real room size and everything, it just kind of…I love it.

SD: Somebody said that to me early this morning, that everything just is so different proportioned from what they remember. When you’re little it’s just different.

CB: This was Ms. Price class.

FF: It just give me a sense of pride to know that I walked through these… this building.

CB: Yeah.

ES: Um-hum.

FF: And my children’ll come up–like we’re having a meeting or something now, with my class–and my son came up and brought his son, he say, “Momma, this is where you went to school?” I said, “Yes, it is.”

CB: This is it.

FF: And I say, “Well this was it.” I said, “With the good football team and everything right down the street here.” I said, “That was it.” But they graduated from Winnsboro High [Fairfield Central], so they didn’t know the difference.

ES: I always say that these are my glory days at this school.

CB: Yeah. Best years of our life.

FF: The good ol’ days.

ES: The good ol’ days, that’s right…

SD: And you guys have remained friends and classmates since then?

ES: Yeah.

FF: Um-hum.

ES: We had a lot of fun at this school.

FF: Um-hum. As a matter of fact we just celebrated our, what, forty-fifth class reunion?

CB: Yeah.

FF: And we still meet on a monthly basis.

ES: Yes, we do.

SD: How many of you still get together out of your class?

ES: You see that picture up there?

SD: In the middle?

ES: Uh-huh.

SD: This is your class?

ES: That was our class.

FF: That was our class reunion–our last class reunion.

ES: And some of our teachers on there. Uh-huh, yeah we had a gathering–forty-five years–a gathering, and all of us got together and it was just wonderful. And we’re also getting ready to plan our sixty-fifth birthday. Uh-huh.

CB: These old people… (laughter)

ES: See, all of us will be sixty-five, and we’re gonna have a big ol’ birthday bash.

SD: Oh, that’s wonderful. Well, this has been such a gift to me. Thank you all for taking the time to share your stories with me.

ES: You’re quite welcome.

SD: It’s been a blessing. And I’m gonna turn us off.

End of Interview